Yellow Thunder Woman:
PRINCESS, PROVOCATEUR
A rumble of thunder, a flash of light- suddenly a seemingly miraculous woman appears on the horizon. Perhaps I exaggerate, but it wouldn't be hard to imagine Yellow Thunder Woman surfing the skies in spandex. She's gifted at just about everything she does, and effortlessly generates unmitigated lust, but she does have two distinct super powers:
• The ability to offend almost everyone.
• The ability to make almost everyone want to be offended by her again.
Of course, Bill O'Reilly must have some kryptonite. Yellow Thunder Woman and her Bastard Fairies band mate Robin Davey cooked up a little YouTube bomb called The Coolest 8 Year Old in the World Talks About O'Reilly. The narrative of a young girl ripping on religion, and of course, Bill O'Reilly, certainly created controversy, but at the O'Reilly Factor, it created an earthquake. The revered (and reviled) outer of CIA agents took a little umbrage at the video, accusing the band of endangering the welfare of the child actress by feeding her ‘foul' ideas. Naturally, millions of people boogied on over to YouTube to have a peek, making the clip the 18 th most viewed YouTube video of all time.
Given the lack of courage so endemic to national media these days, I doubt there would have been a smoother path to the national spotlight for the Bastard Fairies' somewhat unique material.
Their CD, Memento Mori , despite layers of mockery and cynicism, sounds like Mom and Dad accidentally left out the keys to the studio. There is perpetual vertigo resulting from exaggerated innocence crashing against the headlong debauchery of these songs. These tracks are compelling and addictive, catchy in a surreal Pop way, and meaningful as well.
I wasn't surprised that when I discovered Yellow Thunder Woman's celebrated paintings online, they struck me as a aesthetic assault against Frida Kahlo; the same delicacy, but greater violence. What did surprise me was an award-winning documentary to her credit. The Canary Effect is an unrelenting depiction of the history and conditions of Native Americans. The truth marches forward like an occupying force. If you really want to understand the legacy of American Cultural Imperialism, you must watch this film.
As edgy and original as Yellow Thunder Woman assuredly is, I think in some way that she is following a tradition as it would have evolved if the natural progression of her native culture hadn't been systematically erased. Directly drawing her descent from celebrated Ponca Chief Standing Bear, she perfectly fits the job description for a Postmodern Indian Princess.
T. Virgil Parker: I had been having trouble deciding if it was still possible to be both relevant and controversial, before I encountered your work.
Yellow Thunder Woman: It's actually quite easy. You just have to have a good argument and know what you're talking about. And it's okay to be controversial and still be relevant because it's important to do research and know what you're talking about. That's what being a good lawyer is, you make a case. Every time you talk about something you make a good case.
TVP: It's kind of a testament to how much we haven't evolved that you need to do a movie like The Canary Effect.
YTW: If anything, because of the way culture is, people are actually devolving. I think it's important- regardless of all the destroying our brains we may do when we drink- to exercise your brain. And because of the brain's plasticity, we can always grow new neurons the more we learn. It's important to learn new things.
I wanted to do The Canary Effect because I wanted people to just learn about it. There's even a lot of my own people who, because of the way schools are, haven't been taught a lot about history, the true history. And I think it's just important for people to know about history because without having any knowledge about history, then you'll just end up making the same mistakes over and over again.
TVP: I thought it was cool that you made quick work of Columbus , because kids are still being brainwashed into, you know, here's this hero who comes over.
YTW: And he wasn't a hero, he was a complete asshole. And he was also a stupid asshole as well and everyone likes giving him credit for, you know, "discovering America ." America was already discovered and it was already occupied by a lot of people who were quite happy and peaceful, actually. People say, "oh, they were savages, and they started scalping," and stuff like that. And no, we didn't. The truth is that we were really sorted people in our way of lives. The pilgrims came over and didn't know what to do, they would have died without us. We ended up helping them, and then they killed us off because we were savages. It's all that religious bullshit. It's the same thing in England where they thought cats were evil. And so they ended up killing all their cats and then the rat population went up and everyone got the plague because of all that religious bullshit which makes life really hard when it shouldn't be.
TVP: What blew my mind about the whole O'Reilly thing is that essentially, he was accusing you of imperialism.
YTW: I actually think what Bill O'Reilly did was cool because it got us more attention. He did us a service by being a little stupid baby: "They put me down, I'm going to make them seem like idiots," but actually he made himself look like an idiot. He conveniently edited out all things that we said about him
TVP: Right.
YTW: How convenient; how Fox News. I've been called a chauvinist and everything. There's lots of people that love to hate me, and lots of people that hate to love me.
TVP: Right, but they do.
YTW: Like I always say, I want to go out with death threats and love letters.
TVP: It seems like there's an imperative in our culture to literally sit down and shut up.
YTW: The problem is that people need to have a voice and they need to know that they have the right to have a voice. And they need to have the right to complain and also speak out when something is completely and utterly unfair and wrong. You have to know when to speak out.
Sometimes that doesn't make sense to speak out because you'll get fired, but when it comes to basic human rights, someone needs to stand up for it, and people also need to be told to stand up for their rights.
TVP: How aware were you of the media frenzy you would kick in.
YTW: I was pretty aware of it. I mean it was quite surprising how big is got but when we did The Coolest 8 Year Old video we knew that it would get a lot of attention because it was so controversial. It's something that a lot of people have been talking about but a lot of people have actually been afraid to voice their views on the subject. And because we're really brave people and don't care what people think about us, we thought "we need to do this, we need to do this one, for ourselves, and second, for other people, so they feel that it's okay, it's okay to have your own views.”
TVP: You must have literally known the full extent of cultural provincialism out there. Christianity is, itself, a form of imperialism when you force it on someone who already has a religion or a philosophy.
YTW: I'm not discriminating when I talk about religion, I don't like any of it. And even sometimes religion can be veganism, if you're a Vegan, that is a religion and people don't like to look at it that way. Even love can be a religion. You have to be careful when you believe in something. You have to be able to question everything about it. And the thing is that I like vegan food, but to be honest, I love eating meat. I'll eat vegan food and I'll eat meat, I'll eat vegetarian or whatever, but I'm not going to buy into it. I'm not going to say "oh, I'm a Vegan, I'm a vegetarian." And even with that, I won't say I'm an atheist. I'm more of an anti-theist.
TVP: Any idea that comes straight out of the box isn't going to be good for your development.
YTW: Yeah, exactly, it's not. Because like I said, because of the brain's plasticity, you have to, in order for your brain to grow, you have to learn new things. You have to learn about new ideas and consider new ideas. That's evolution, baby.
TVP: When you were putting Memento Mori together, did you go out of your way to find toy instruments?
YTW: No, actually, I'm an extremely lazy person when it comes to stuff like that, and I'm a cheap person as well. I don't want to spend any money on anything. We lived right next to this town called Ventura in California , Ventura County . They had a shit load of thrift stores. We found what we needed and we came back and started work on the album because I wanted to get it done in five days. And Robin was just like "Yeah, you're fucking insane," but I'm very impatient and also very lazy, so I like to get things done quick and easy.
TVP: It's an immensely empowering message in and of itself that you spent next to nothing on the project.
YTW: Yeah, but I don't think you need to. And the benefit of that, of having obstacles and stuff like that is that you have to have talent. Not just anybody can do it. You do have to know what your talent is, for one, and have faith in the fact you can do it.
TVP: It's very easy to get lost in the bells and whistles too at a real studio sometimes.
YTW: Yeah, it is for a lot of people, but you do have to be certain about what you want to do. When you go into anything, even if it's making a movie, you have to know what you want to say. And you have to know what you want the end result to be. It's important to have a plan, but not an extreme dictation. But you have to have some sort of a plan and also be able to go with the flow as well.
I put myself in the audience's point of view: "what do I want to see and what do I want to hear?" And at the end of the day I want to satisfy myself.
TVP: Now you've probably thought about this, but it occurred to me that you're using a lot of the same strategies that your ancestor Standing Bear used.
YTW: Yeah, I think I do. I'm also Yankton Sioux and my people have been looked at in history as being the worst, because we actually fought for our rights.
TVP: You defended yourselves.
YTW: Yeah, we actually defended ourselves and the other tribes thought that it would be easier just to try to work with the government, but they ended up getting screwed. They ended up getting killed either way. With the Sioux mentality, we were warriors; we were going to fight for our basic human rights. Standing Bear got it legally recognized in America that Native Americans were humans. Because of religion, we were thought to be savages. Even to this day I'm thought of as savage. Not because I'm Indian, just because of the way I am. Because I love my body and I don't mind showing it and I don't mind people looking at my tits and stuff like that because tits are wonderful. I mean come on, you'd have to be a frigid asshole to think they're not, or asexual.
TVP: That's a component of Western Civilization. It obsesses about sex and denies it at the same time. It's created more neurosis, more psychosis than any factor in western civilization.
YTW: Yeah, exactly, and I completely agree there. I think there's nothing wrong with sexuality. I think it's a part of being human. And you know, I don't believe in a god. I believe that life is quite chaotic, but it's beautifully chaotic. It's interesting, it's mind building, it's constantly evolving and everything. I recently did a radio show and just got off tour, so that's another reason why I'm really fucked. I had quite the rock ‘n roll week, lots of partying. But yeah, I did and interview. The guy, he didn't believe in global warming, he thought it was bullshit and we talked about climate change. And I said well, this Earth started out as molten lava. And what about the ice age? People forget about the ice age. They think it's all man made, but that's quite arrogant to think that it is, because this world is bigger than us. In five million years, the sun is going to turn into a dwarf star, and we're all going to be gone anyway. So it's all about giving people here and now a good life until they die because none of us is forever. It's all about being able to have basic rights, and have a good life, and be happy before you die.
TVP: Are you ever concerned about the gender issues?
YTW: I'm quite a happy person, I don't really worry about most stuff, but I think with the gender issue, it's not really a big problem for me. I don't think about it a lot. I mean it does come up, people do have prejudices, people are discriminating in a lot of ways, but I don't let it bother me, and I think that's the best way to look at it. Don't let things bother you. Lots of people like attention no matter how they get it, whether it's negative attention or positive attention, and if someone is really coming at you wanting a lot negative attention, the best thing you can do is just ignore them.
TVP: This is the one thing that nobody says. It's very empowering to be good to look at.
YTW: Yes, of course it is. I learned from my dad because he used to dress like a peacock every time he went out and I remember I asked him once, why he did that, and he said it's out of respect for other people. You have to make an effort for other people. And to dress up, to dress well for other people, you show them that you respect them and that you care enough to want to look good for them. I think it's important. I mean I'm Native American, we always wore costumes and we always dressed up. I think every human did it. I think it's an important thing. Animals do it. Birds have beautiful feathers for a reason. You have to make yourself enticing to people.
TVP: What you have is a system of thought that is not an ideology.
YTW: Tell me why that is. I don't understand.
TVP: I'm going to guess it's because you have a lot of fluid intelligence.
YTW: I think I'm tits with a brain, but I think it's important! And I think also when you're stupid it's important to realize when you're stupid and to use what you've got and everything. But if you have a lot of that stuff, it's important to use it. It's how you get through life a lot easier.
TVP: Basically a lot of our ideas and a lot of our traditions were actually thought-saving devices.
YTW: Yes, and also very antiquated.
TVP: Yes, and they literally get written into your DNA in my opinion.
YTW: Yeah, I think they sometimes do, I think it does happen and it's important for people like me, for people who don't mind being in the limelight, but it's not, to be honest, I don't care about other people's applause. Like I said, I was loved by my parents, both of my parents loved me so I don't need other peoples' approval, but in a way that kind of makes people like me more, because I don't give a shit. I can't change the world, but I can change your mind.
TVP: I think a lot of people haven't given themselves the opportunity to find out who they are.
YTW: That is a problem. You do have to first figure out who you are and once you know who you are, it's a lot easier to figure out other people. Because people are sometimes just puzzled by life and I think because it's all these complicated things like, you know, you look at religion. Religion is nothing but a giant contradiction. That's why people are confused by it. That's why people go through life confused. Because, oh, I have to be this way, but then I can't be this way because the Bible tells me to do this, but then it also tells me to do this, which is a great big contradiction. I think it's important to have your own ideas, and to also experiment with your own ideas. Sometimes your own ideas might be right, but sometimes they're spot on. And that's the thing, is that there's nothing wrong with experimentation.
TVP: Do you ever find yourself, aware of places where your own thinking has been impeded by inherited cultural modes of thought.
YTW: I think that's kind of like with anybody. I know when I was younger I was really smart for my age, but I was also quite naive and quite stupid. But I also knew that I needed parents for a reason. If us humans were made to be like spiders and we knew everything we were going to need to know for the rest of our lives then we wouldn't need parents, but the fact is that we do and I did and I know when I was younger I made loads of mistakes. Some of the mistakes, it would have been better if my parents told me right away, "that's a mistake and you're going to suffer for that." To be honest, I don't know if I'd listen, but still, it's good to have that. I think sometimes even adults still need that. I know I don't, but I know a lot of adults still need a sort of parenting in a way because growing up is a hard thing, and it's hard to realize that you do have to grow up. And some people just don't want to.
TVP: How much hostility do you have to process?
YTW: I do get a lot of hostility but to be honest, for every one person that doesn't like me, there are always ten that do.
TVP: Yeah, I was going to assume as much.
YTW: Yeah. You know, and I'm a likeable person. Come on, I'm charming and I have nice tits. I always have. The thing is I've always gotten into arguments with men, with like Christian men or people who are very political, and at the end of the argument they ended up wanting to screw me. So that says a lot about people's views, at the end of the day we're all human and we love fucking.
TVP: That's the one thing that transcends politics, as far as I can tell.
YTW: Yeah, sex is definitely a wonderful thing for me, and I think for every man. Not for every woman it isn't. I was surprised to find out, by doing research, that only fifty percent of women can have orgasm during sex. And I think that's really sad because it says how evolution hasn't really quite caught up yet.
TVP: No, that's cultural imprinting. I guarantee if you went to a native culture that did not have the same cultural messages, you would not find that.
YTW: Maybe, but it's about the human body as well. For women, we evolved in such a way where sex was mainly for procreation. You look at a lot of animals, females, like look at cheetahs, they have to be raped in order to procreate, they don't like having sex. It's not a nice thing for them. It's more that procreation was the main focus for a lot of women to have sex; that was main thing. But I think people like me are quite lucky. I get a lot of enjoyment out of sex and I think it's quite wonderful and it should be done more often. It just takes stress off, it's a lot of stress relief.
TVP: I think that when people build up a lot of barriers around sex, they suffer in other ways, too.
YTW: Yeah, they do, that's true. It is difficult for women because women's brains, like I've been called a chauvinist saying I hate women, it's not that I hate women, I love women a lot, but I find women really hard to be around because of the way their brain works, because they're so complicated and they have so many hormones. And I like the simplicity of men. I really do. I like the fact that they can just say "fuck it, let's have some fun." It's not like I don't like women, I love women. My mother was a woman, come on!
TVP: I'm still convinced that the whole chauvinistic thrust of culture has basically positioned the majority of women to be defined.
YTW: It has, because women have been treated really crap for a lot of years, and so you get women who now absolutely hate men because of it. But I think you shouldn't. You should be more correcting of them. You should say, "it's not good that you do this, but what you do here, here, and here, is wonderful." And that's the thing. Men's brains actually stop growing around twenty-one, while women's brains can stop growing a lot earlier. That's a neurological fact. But the problem with women is that we have all these fucking hormones, so it drives us absolutely crazy, and we only get crazier as we get older. So by the time we're like in our fifties and we've gone through menopause or something like that, we're completely insane. But you have to be able to adore it though.
TVP: Men do have hormonal issues too.
YTW: Yes, they do, they do as well, but women have a lot more. Because we have to have kids and we get periods and stuff like that so being intelligent can drive you crazy as well.
TVP: It's always amazed me that intelligence is not one of the things that give most men wood, you know?
YTW: I don't know, I think it is, actually. I think a lot of men prefer me over stupid women because stupid women often make life a lot more complicated. I think it does give men wood, I think men do appreciate intelligence, but they, you know, appreciate open intelligence. You know, people who are open with their sexuality, are okay with guys checking them out, and who like it and think it's cool. It's a part of human nature and there's nothing wrong with it. I think we've been told we're savages because of the way we are, but I don't think so. I think we're animals and I think it's natural. I think the Bible and religion is unnatural, I think that's the unnatural thing.
TVP: In terms of what it's done to humanity, I have to agree.
YTW: You also get a lot of men who still get hard-ons but you get a lot of frigid men. There's no coincidence that certain cultures, like with serial killers, there's no coincidence that a lot of serial killers are white. And they're men. And a lot of serial killers have a hard time getting a hard-on. They're impotent, and so they get their sick kick out of mutilating women or young boys or something like that. See that's the bad thing. That's where religion and being brought up in such strict kind of ways can really screw you up. But also being spoiled can so it as well as well.
TVP: William Blake was all over that idea two centuries ago.
YTW: I find a lot of famous people that I have met are really no different from serial killers, because they come to expect things, and not respect things.
TVP: In your current situation, you could easily end up with a kind of fame that you wouldn't be comfortable with.
YTW: Yeah. I like attention just like anyone else but I don't like too much of it. And I don't want people looking up to me as though I'm a god. I want people to look up to me as though I'm just a human with intelligence.
TVP: You've got companies offering you big checks.
YTW: It's kind of a bad decision to go with a record label at the moment and it's a lot better to do things yourself. And also with the music side of things, I grew up not liking a lot of music. I grew up around musicians and I was always around musicians my whole life, so I absolutely fucking hated them. So I never wanted to be a musician. Kind of like when I did do my album, I did it purely for myself, because I paint as well. I paint for myself because I enjoy it. When I did my album I wanted to make my favorite album. I wanted to do something I would enjoy listening to, but also enjoy doing. So that's why I did give it away for free. I wasn't planning on making any money out of it. It would be nice if I did, but to be honest, I am all for having a nine-to-five job as well.
TVP: Your album, Memento Mori, the undercurrent that goes all the way through it, is basically depraved innocence.
YTW: Yeah, well, I think like with my lyrics, I think they're quite unusual. You listen to a song like Apple Pie, a lot of people don't get the irony of it. I'm not talking about myself. I always put myself in the first person when it comes to writing lyrics. So I'm not talking about myself, I'm making fun of somebody. Somebody who I know who is like that. And there's some songs that I do write about myself. You know, like Habitual Inmate, that's about me. I am a systematic victim. I did have OCD really bad as a kid and I don't anymore because basically I've learned to laugh at myself and tell myself, "yeah, you're being fucking crazy! And you shouldn't be, because it's not fun!"
TVP: I think the message of OCD is to find a good channel to plug it into. Or good channels, really.
YTW: Yeah, you have to. Because, like I said, at the end of the day, we're animals. You look at hamsters, you look at most animals, they don't have OCD. You put them in a cage, then that's when you see it. You see them doing things that just aren't necessary. But because their brain works in a certain way where it's all about survival, you know if they were in the wild, all the things that they would be doing would be necessary for survival. You put them in a cage, they end up acting like crazy little creatures. Which is fun, but still.
TVP: I think that's true of a lot of us humans.
YTW: Yeah, it is, it is true of a lot of people. I think it's just nature's way.
TVP: Another theme that's in Memento Mori, and I don't want to get all arty on you, but, the theme of the disempowered woman.
YTW: I don't see it there, but I know what you're saying. I do know what you're saying about it. I think a lot of people choose their place. They choose to be weak. They do choose that place because I think a lot of people are comfortable with being told what to do because it means they don't have to think.
TVP: Seeing it that thread is intensely ironic because anyone who listens to the album understands that they're dealing with someone who is as self-empowered as you can get, pretty much.
YTW: I think I could probably get a little bit more. I can always evolve.
TVP: Well, you're in the place you need to be to get more empowered, right?
YTW: Yeah. I'm never done, I'm only done when I die.
TVP: Right.
YTW: Time enough for sleep in the grave.
TVP: When we put on the disc here in the office, for example, people crowd around the speakers, because it is so different.
YTW: It's not that I wanted it to be different; it's just that I'm different. I'm different to a lot of people. Which is fine, but I think life would be a lot easier for me if a lot of people were more like me. Like, threw caution to the wind. And just had fun, genuine fun, not someone else's perception of fun.
TVP: Right, well, you know though, our America is a place where everyone is happy on the spreadsheet, but not really happy.
YTW: I think a lot of people suffer from denial. People tell me I'm not very patriotic and the fact is, that I'm not. But I do love America . I love the country because when I go to other places, yeah there's other places that are more open and a lot of fun, but I go to a place like England where they're quite snobby and they do believe that they're smarter than other people there, and they don't like the French even though the French are the same way. You go to England and they're so miserable. The only cool thing about England is the bar scene. It's wonderful! Because the people are so standoffish there and so proper, and then once they start drinking, they're fabulous! They're fabulous people! The bar scene in LA is actually horrible because everyone does cocaine and smokes pot and stuff like that. And I hate that shit! I don't like cokeheads and I don't like potheads. And, you know, I smoke pot once in a while. I haven't in a long time, but I like people who drink. I think they're a lot of fun!
TVP: It gets the super-ego out of the way.
YTW: Yeah. People are so pretentious here. And that's what I love about the bar scene in England .
TVP: It's like taking a soda bottle and shaking it up and then taking the cap off.
YTW: Yeah, exactly! That's a perfect analogy, actually.
TVP: There's so much of an imperative in the UK to be not just okay, but almost nonexistent, you know?
YTW: It kind of seems like English people go out of their way to be uncomfortable. And I think having comfort is really nice. I don't think it makes you lazy at all. A lot of people say it makes you lazy. I think it makes life easier, and it makes it easier for you just to get on work, because you don't have to work for all those little simple things that should just come easy. When it comes down to just doing real work, you're more willing to do it, and you're more willing to work your ass off.
TVP: That's probable. I think the reason that the class is so rigid in England is because individual achievement is not necessarily encouraged.
YTW: Yeah, but also, it's the type of place where people are miserable because people are told not to complain. Restaurants on the whole are pretty crap in England . Service is pretty crap in England . The other day I was at this restaurant because for one thing, no one sat us, and so I went and sat down and there were all these waiters walking around. I was like waving my hands and yelling at people and there was this one waiter who saw me, looked at me, and then purposely walked away. And I was okay, it would have been so fucking easy for you to come, and nobody tips there. Here, people work for their tips. And they should. If you have a good attitude, be nice to people, they're going to feel good about tipping you. I gave a bartender a tip in England . It was only like ten pence, something like that, and he like said, "are you sure?! Are you sure?" And I was like, "Yeah, it's like ten p, that's nothing.” He was like so surprised. And, you know, I always tip my bartender here because if they're good and they give you drinks and stuff like that on time, then you know, why not?
TVP: It is sort of a double-edged sword, though, because people are so programmed toward money here that it's almost the only impulse left.
YTW: I think there's nothing wrong with money. I think money is a good thing. It helps keep the economy and everything going. But I think people do get obsessed with things just as people get obsessed with other people. That's why it's not that I don't believe in love, it's just that I know that love, it's not what people think it is, it's not that romantic thing. Love, basically, when you look at most people's perception of it, it doesn't exist. So a lot of times I say I don't believe in love because it doesn't exist. I like people, and this is the thing is that with humans, you look someone in the eye and you can tell if that person is attracted to you. You get endorphins. Dopamine gets released in your brain, and you like that person, you're attracted to them. But what happens after that basic infatuation goes, is that if that person isn't cool and you don't get on with them, it's not going to last. It's really not. And you have to like someone, you have to genuinely like them, like who they are. Like hanging around them. Get a kick out of the type of person that they are. Because if you don't, it's pointless, it's not going to last at all.
TVP: I suspect that monogamy was really enforced by religion.
YTW: That's why a lot of people who weren't happy stayed in marriages for so long even though they fucking hated that person that they were with. Which, you know, I mean for me, I'm not a monogamous person. I have more, kind of, I like companionship and stuff like that, but I'm not faithful. Like, when I get drunk and want to have sex, I'm just going to have sex.
TVP: You know, I would rather someone cheat on me than have them sit in the corner grinding their teeth when I walk by.
YTW: Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing is I don't see it as cheating.
TVP: Well no, it doesn't have to be.
YTW: Yeah, and you know, as a kid growing up, I'm the youngest of fifteen brother's and sisters and my parents, they were both really cool people, but they fought a lot and my mom wasn't that happy with her relationship with him, but they were both awesome people. But you know, they stayed together for a long time and everything, but I always thought, "I'm not going to do that" as a kid. I don't really want a relationship. I don't want a relationship until I'm old and I'm ready to give up. Then I'll just give up and say fuck it, I'll just deal with you, it's too much work to do whatever, but as of right now, I'm not that into relationships. They make my life too complicated and I kind of want to focus on other things.
TVP: So you're saying that you're going to get married as soon as you have no energy left at all?
YTW: Yeah, exactly. Whenever I'm just ready to let my brain die. Then I'll go, okay, I give up, I'll fucking deal with you, whoever it is. Right now I'm a bit too feisty.
TVP: What is your favorite art form to create in?
YTW: My favorite art form has to be film.
TVP: Are you looking at anything that's not a documentary?
YTW: Oh, yeah! I love all films. I love documentaries, I love fiction films, I want to make a slasher movie. But I want to make a slasher movie on the reservation, which would be really cool.
TVP: That hasn't been done.
YTW: Yeah, and it'd be really cheap, which would be awesome, because I'm a cheap asshole.
TVP: And you wouldn't have a white police officer come in and save the day at the end, which is the theme in a lot of those.
YTW: I think it would be so much fun to make a slasher movie. When I was a kid, because I was rebelling from, you know, my family, I wanted to be a writer, and so I used to write short stories all the time. And that's probably why my lyrics are so weird, because I do them from a writer's point of view. They're not poetry, they're more perspective.
TVP: Right. There isn't even necessarily a plot in there. It's a series of statements.
YTW: Kind of, almost a social commentary.
TVP: Oh, absolutely. You would think because everyone has a medium of expression these days, be it message boards, Myspace, and email groups, that there would be a plethora of viewpoints out there.
YTW: But people are so afraid of expressing their own views because everyone wants approval of other people. Well not everyone, there's people are there that don't, but most people want other people's approval, so they are afraid to have their own point of view.
I encourage people to have their own point of view. Even if I don't agree with it, I still encourage it, because at least it's them. It's like really popular in England for American bands to go up on stage and say "George Bush is a cunt!" And everyone claps automatically. But to be honest, I don't think he's a country. I think he shouldn't be running the country, but he actually seems like a cool guy to go out and have a beer with. But he shouldn't be the leader of the free world.
TVP: The scariest people are always the people who think that they're doing the right thing.
YTW: Yeah, and then there's the stupid people. He's adorably stupid, but he just shouldn't have the power that he has. And the problem with that, with politics and everything, is that it's almost like choosing the lesser of two evils.
TVP: It's always like choosing the lesser of two evils.
YTW: The thing is, is that everyone wants to jump on Bush. And they want to jump on him. But the thing is, you look at all the past presidents, none of them were really that good. And so, you look at all them, they all made huge mistakes and they all did really fucked up things. And you look at Abraham Lincoln with the way he was and yeah, he freed a lot of slaves, but he also killed a lot of Native Americans. And also his wife was a crazy money-hungry asshole who used to charge, the people who worked for him to see him. They'd have to see Abraham Lincoln, even though they worked for him and they should be able to see him. And so no president was perfect and I don't believe in perfection and I think you're not going to get a perfect president. I'd quite like to see Hillary Clinton win, even though I don't vote, I'd like to see her win because I always wanted to know what it would be like to have a frigid bitch as a president.
TVP: You know, she doesn't excite me, but I'm going to vote for her anyway.
YTW: I don't vote, I don't believe in it. I know that's probably a bad message.
TVP: You know what though? I don't think there's any moral to voting, per say, if all of the choices are pointless. It's more of a habit for me than anything else.
YTW: But that's the thing is that I can't really complain because I know I'd be an awful president. I'd be worse than George Bush!
TVP: I don't think anyone is supposed to lead the free world.
YTW: I think there does need to be order and stuff like that. There do need to be rules; otherwise it would be fucking absolute chaos. And like I said, if I ruled the world, it would be chaos. You'd have more deaths than anything.
TVP: I'd vote for you.
YTW: Good!
TVP: I voted for Perot because I thought that he would make it all grind to a halt. And then we'd end up painting ourselves blue and sharpening sticks. That's my idea of a good time.
YTW: Yeah! The one person I really don't like is Al Gore. I think he's a fame-hungry prick.
TVP: A poser?
YTW: Yeah. He wants fame, that's all he wants. And people have asked him, "Are you going to run for president?" And he's like, "no, no I'm not." And of course he's not, because all he wanted was fame. And so he made up this whole Global Warming bullshit and, you know, now they play that fucking, I don't know what it's called, The Inconvenient Truth or whatever, fucking horrible documentary. I tried to watch it at Michael Moore's film festival when I was there. I ended up falling asleep! The first half is him just fucking talking about himself. And he's such a boring guy. It's just like, I don't fucking care! I don't want to know anything about you. Get your fucking point out and get on with it.
TVP: It must have been fun for him to sit around for years after the election and watch America go to hell in a hand basket.
YTW: Yeah, well I don't think he could have done anything better, that's the thing. But that's just my opinion. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, but not everyone has a hemorrhaging asshole.
TVP: I have more than one.
YTW: I think Al Gore's opinion is a hemorrhaging asshole.
TVP: How were the shows in England ?
YTW: Oh, they were awesome! The thing about England is that people don't clap, really. And so when you get a response, even if it's a slight one, you're happy. I made a point of saying to people when I was on stage, "none of you need to like me, and I don't need you to like me, because I like me." And that's all that matters. So you know, fuck off, drink a lot of booze, and enjoy yourself.
TVP: That's a great moral to the story.
YTW: Yeah!
TVP: You know, George Bush grew up as a hedonist.
YTW: Yeah, and now he's a born again Christian, who are the most boring assholes in the world.
TVP: His parents were loaded, it should have been okay for him to just party his brains out for the rest of his life.
YTW: Yeah, it should have been! Like I said, he seems like a nice guy.
TVP: Given all your different careers, what is next on your agenda?
YTW: At the moment, there's a lot of things going on, but at the moment we just want to go out and do more gigs, because we had so much fun this time. That's the plan, to get out and play and stuff. Because it was a fucking blast. Like I said, we had a true Rock ‘n Roll week. We were just doing gigs and then going out and getting hammered and waking up the next day completely fucked. And then doing it all over again. It was pretty awesome.
TVP: In a way, you've inherited Rock ‘n Roll.
YTW: Yeah, I definitely did. My dad was a musician and everyone always told me I was my father's daughter because, you know, I'm just like him. I'm just like my dad. Or the way he was. He's dead now, he died in ‘98. But yeah, he was a fucking cool, cool guy. He was a really intelligent guy. He always pissed people off but at the end of the day he was charming and you couldn't help but love him.
TVP: Again, I want to say that people are drawn to your ideas because they're not taken right off the shelf.
YTW: No, they're not. I do think about things. I always make a point of thinking about what I say because it's important. It's kind of pointless to have views if you don't think about them and if they don't make a lot of sense. I sometimes think a lot of people that want to argue with me want to argue with me because they just desperately want to have a point of view. But when you pick apart what they're saying, they don't have a good case.
TVP: I think everyone who's arguing with you is almost asking to have their ass handed back to them.
YTW: That's the thing. When I made my documentary, The Canary Effect , I really did go after it because as a kid, I wanted to be lawyer when I grew up. My dad was a bit of a lawyer. People always say, "oh, lawyers are the sleaziest people," I always thought they were the most honest people. Because, you know, I'd talk to a lawyer and if he was all about money he'd say, "I'm all about money. I like getting paid, I work for the mob, because I like the money." And you know, they were just the cool people that I always enjoyed hanging around because they were always bastards.
TVP: I don't think pretending to have values helps anyone.
YTW: Yeah. It's about your argument. Arguments are kind of like a tree, you can always find a branch, you can always find a way to win an argument. But for me, I think you have to actually believe in what you have to say. And as hard as it may be for some people, you have to practice it. You have to practice what you preach. And the thing is, is that I preach very simplistic things. And I do practice them because it's easy to.
TVP: There was nothing in The Canary Effect that was the tiniest bit of a stretch, you know? There are a lot of sensationalized appeals for white people to stop raping cultures. Allowing things to just march forward like you did is far more devastating.
YTW: Right. Yeah. I think, like with the Native American culture, it suffers from being bashed in the head, basically, and you get a lot of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder there. And a lot of people are really suffering from that, from five hundred years of abuse, basically. And being treated like you're basically less than a dog. You know, people treat their dogs better than they treat Native Americans basically. We all like to have that romantic view that, "oh, they're spiritual!" and bullshit like that. But the thing is, is that they were really cool people and to be honest, they still are really cool people. But they are suffering a lot. And that's what pisses me off. Because there was no need to destroy that culture and the way it was destroyed. I think it was done out of pure hatefulness and jealousy. A lot of people came over to this country with entitlement issues, I can tell you that.
TVP: Right. Really, the people who were left out of the aristocratic tree, as it were, the disenfranchised were the people who came here.
YTW: The victims become the victimizers.
TVP: Right, and that's true over and over again. The oppressed always become the oppressors. So what it was, really, was a class train wreck.
YTW: Yeah, exactly. A lot of people want answers when they watch The Canary Effect because we don't sugar coat it. It's just basically, these are the facts, this is how it is. And if you don't like it, I'm sorry, the truth hurts, but it is the truth. At some point we all need to hear the basic truth. And that's the only way you can change things. By educating yourself and my knowing the truth. A lot of people I know can't watch surgery. They have to look away. But the thing is that there has to be people that can watch it and there has to be people that can do it. Otherwise we're all fucked.
TVP: One thing I've noticed about America is that we are in complete denial about what we're not good at.
YTW: Yeah, exactly. It's really important to know what you're good at and what you're not good at. And you have to know. And you have to have respect for other people as well. There are certain things I know I'm not good at. I know I'm not good at being a musician. I'm not good at playing instruments. Why? Because I'm usually too drunk most of the time, and I'm also too fucking lazy. But I appreciate good musicians. I appreciate people who can play their instruments well. Without them, I wouldn't have a band. But that's the thing is that the reason I didn't like a lot of musicians is that they're all attention hungry people and they needed so many people to approve of them. A lot of them are actually quite frigid and had a lot of messed up problems. But you'll find most artists have a lot of problems. Like you look at a clam. There needs to be a disturbance to create a pearl.
TVP: Right. Yeah, for sure.
YTW: And that's the thing with artists. Actors, musicians, all of them, they're all pretty fucked up, you'll find. But it kind of makes them create good things and it makes them create entertaining things, which I think is really important.
TVP: It is.. You're an artist, by the way.
YTW: Yeah. And I'm pretty fucked up, as you can tell. I don't deny that. Like people that I drink with, they always go "I'm not a drunk, I know my limit." Well I am. I'm a drunk, and I don't know my limit. I admit to everything. The truth will set you free.
